video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

[Once things have calmed down with the doppelgangers and the vorest forest, there's something else left to be addressed. So, Claude addresses the network.]

Hi friends! Claude here. I haven't met most of you yet, so I suppose this would be a good time to say "nice to meet you", too. Hope your mirror images were nice to you and not... you know.

[Claude's sitting indoors by a sunny window in his treehouse apartment, his small white wyvern familiar snoozing beside him.]

As eager as I am to get to know everyone, what I actually wanted to talk about was the situation with Elphame. Since Arthur dumped the decision on what to do on our shoulders, we'd better figure out how to cast our votes.

For my part, based on past relations between Elphame and Camelot, invading Celliwig is out of the question. Humans and fae have waged wars here in the past, and it's taken a lot of effort to earn the peace they have now. Camelot has even been making strides to learn about fae and coexist peacefully with them. Given Celliwig is our best chance for communication, attacking would be completely counterproductive. Even if we did, there's no guarantee we'd succeed, so why risk it?

That said, direct negotiation hasn't worked either, so our two remaining options are to focus on slowly building up trust via trade links, or deal with matters on Celliwig's terms and accept their trials. Honestly, I'm not clear on the details on that, so if someone who knows more could get the rest of us up to speed, by all means...?

[He trails off with a shrug, then gives a sheepish smile.]

Anyway, I've waffled on for a while now! Long story short, I think our peaceful options are really the best shot we have at this, it's just a matter of deciding which is best. I'm really not interested in letting a violent old history repeat itself. Feel free to pitch in with your own thoughts... Maybe we can even come up with something better than what's already being proposed.

[He gives a lazy wave, before ending the feed.]


[ooc: threadjacking is welcome and encouraged! go wild]

Comments

text - un:IZZYGRRRL83

[notwearingthekeds]

I'm guessing only adults get a say in what's going on? But- what the fuck sort of world is this?

[She didn't really think about the politics of this place, because she's fourteen. But hearing it all spelled out was a lot to take in.]

text; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

I don't know if there are any restrictions on who can or can't vote, honestly. Maybe he wants all of us other worlders to have some input? I'd have to ask around.

As for what kind of world this is, I'm still trying to pin it down myself. I personally couldn't imagine consulting the entire population of a country before launching an attack.

voice | un: octavinelle

[dottedline]

Do you have any information on this "Celliwig" or what's going on, exactly? Some of us are new, after all.

voice; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

I've only been here a month, so maybe the more experienced among us can fill in the gaps, but King Arthur's been away for a little while trying to negotiate assistance from Queen Elphame. She's the queen of the fairies. That didn't work, so now he's casting a public vote on what happens next.

As for Celliwig, it's a place where many powerful light and dark mages reside, and they used to be considered a primary diplomatic channel for relations between fairies and humans. When things went south, they sealed themselves away.

Now one of our proposals is that we attack them... as if brute force is really going to make fairies think any better of humans? I don't think so.

text; un: ensignledo

[ferrytale]

I am trying to acquire a broader understanding of things here, so if you do not mind I have some questions.

You say that efforts have been made in the past in order to achieve peace. Is this an effort only on the part of humans? Have these fae also made a reciprocal effort? Why have direct negotiations failed?

If coexistence with an enemy is impossible, then it may become necessary to act.

text

[leicesters]

I'm not an expert or anything, I've just read a few books, but I'll answer what I can.

There's been plenty of historical good will on the part of the fae. For example, this was entirely their land in the first place, but they let humans come and settle on the island. As for humans, they've been trying to learn and study more about fairy culture and magic, and we have the Elphame traders who come to Camelot every month to trade peacefully. You could always ask them directly if you're curious about it.

On what basis would you say coexistence is impossible, anyway? It's not useful to get stuck thinking in absolutes.

text; un: Rinea_378

[silvergarden]

[Rinea still uses the network like a grandma.]

Camelot, Avalon
April

Friend Claude,

Thank you for your message, and I hope mine finds you well. It sounds like you have put much effort into researching the history of Avalon. I am delighted to find you of such character!

I am penning this response because I agree with your assessment of the situation. Even without the context of history it seems utterly dreadful, in my opinion, to wage war when we have a multiverse disaster hanging over our heads. Our magic here sustains the time-frozen haven, does it not? Beyond failing to successfully invade, I fear much worse could befall us were we to sustain severe losses....

Happily, it is not our only option, as you say! Between trials and trading, I personally find hope in the merchants' path. They already have established inroads with the Fairy Queen, or at least her country... and given the nature of fairy culture (or at least-- what I have heard of it!), I must confess I am apprehensive at what difficulties might exist in trials.

Thank you for taking the time to read my letter. If you have opinions on what trials may put forth, or why trying them would be a boon over working with the merchants, I would be glad to hear them.

Sincerely,
Rinea of Rigel

text

[leicesters]

[Oh wow, it's like a handwritten letter but online. Still, it's polite enough, so he'll match the format she's familiar with.]

Dear Rinea,

It's good to hear from you, and I'm glad we're in agreement. I agree trade is useful in facilitating peaceful relations. It's most often in the material interests of both parties to engage in it, even if they might otherwise have historical or cultural reasons to be hostile.

The trials concern me given that we've already as good as given a public declaration of hostility in even putting an attack up for debate. Why would the people of Celliwig want to engage with a potential threat? Surely that's the reason they hid themselves away to begin with. I don't know what kind of trials would be offered, but the fact that they're a city of master light and dark mages might mean they want to be impressed on both fronts.

Thank you for writing. And, by the way, if it's easier, we can always discuss face to face! I realise writing like this takes a while, for those of us unaccustomed to it.

Yours sincerely,
Claude von Riegan

Voice, un; wolfkissed

[raven_sage]

[Strange, this device hadn't been as difficult to puzzle out as Eivor had been expecting it to be, once she'd worked out the basics. It seemed intuitive enough.]

Open war is not necessarily our only path. What is it we are seeking from these...these fae? A raid is more targeted than war. With a longship to make it up-river, and a stout crew, it may be possible to get in to Celliwig and retrieve whatever resources or knowledge we need with a minimal amount of bloodshed. Only those who stand in our way need taste the bite of my axes.

voice; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

Minimising bloodshed is a good thing in theory, but do you know what you're up against? Light and dark magic. Chances are there's all kinds of illusions and curses on the place that will easily turn around some sticky-fingered individuals from sailing in and taking what they want.

Plus, I'm not completely clear on the strategic merit for taking Celliwig myself. Is Arthur's thinking to force communication through a display of military strength, or are you right, and there's also some material gain to taking the place?

This is why a vote seems crazy to me -- we're in the dark on far too much.

[voice] un: geddoe

[trueltning_fury]

[oh good a topic he would want to weigh in on...good time to figure out how a phone works]

Invading is an option? What idiot proposed that?

I don't have enough information on the situation yet, but I gather that we would want to court these allies in the off chance they may have the tools to solve the overall problem of...whatever it is with the frozen time. Does anyone have more information on these trials?

voice; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

His Kingliness, presumably.

I'd like more information on the trials too, although I'd be very surprised if we're even offered them, given we've been talking publicly of invasion. It could wind up being a trap...

video; un:fireballin

[justwatchmeburn]

I'm not sure why invading them is even an option. From what it sounds like, they haven't done anything wrong except close their borders. We'd be completely in the wrong if we came after them.

video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

I agree. Innocent people could be hurt on both sides just because of a little hiccup in negotiation turning sour. Things don't need to escalate that far.

un: littleredsinginghood; text

[trustheart]

What idiot would think doing something like invading them is even a good idea? I've dealt with shit like that since I was a little girl, and I learned too much to become that sort of person myself.

[Not again, anyway.]

un: stargazer; text

[leicesters]

Sorry to hear that. Are you saying you grew up in a conflict zone?

voice; un: stranger

[eightfoldfiend]

Take Celliwig. Bring the city to its knees and the nation of Elphame will reconsider this little dispute.

voice; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

Is that really guaranteed? Or would we be destroying our best shot at communication?

Celliwig is home to some master mages. I know everyone here has been working their little butts off trying to improve their own magic, but I can't see how we have anything that can match them... and I can't see a guy like Merlin taking to the front lines, either.

UN: wanderingflame; text

[everydayeveryway]

[Who has two thumbs and spent half an hour worrying about this, as she re-read it about thirty times?

This girl!]

A war doesn't seem like a good idea. It's a lot of lives being thrown away.

I'm new here, though. It sounds like Camelot has fought war with the fae before. What are they like? Do we know anything about them? Or their society? Or where they come from, really?

It might help us make a decision.

un: stargazer; text

[leicesters]

Why don't you just talk to them? The Elphame traders are here every month, and plenty of fairies have settled and integrated into Camelot, too. They're not hard to find.

As for where they come from, Avalon was their realm first and foremost. Historically, humans were the guests who were allowed to settle here and form New Camelot.

text | un: b.belladonna

[committing]

I haven't been able to piece together too much, but I can imagine that a vote for building trust by trade might culminate in trials for the intermediaries, or go so slowly that we end up accepting the trials in the near future anyway. If that seems right, then the key question is what kind of trials they are, and if they might have the potential to set off a violent conflict once they're underway. That could explain why Arthur's thrown outright invasion in as an option.

Could we ask him to delay the vote until he's given us more information? Worst case scenario is that we end up becoming scapegoats for some disaster he knows is inevitable.

text; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

All good points, and a lack of information is really what the main issue boils down to. We appoint leaders because they're the people who have all the knowledge needed to make these decisions, so just throwing out random proposals to the populace without much context seems like a route to chaos.

I've written to His Kingliness to see if he's willing to talk, but maybe there are others who've spoken with him already who can clear things up for the rest of us.

video un; Olvia

[blushing_beauty]

Ohhh I really hope it doesn't come to war! I've already been through two, and I'd rather we didn't have to start another!

[Battles or minor skirmishes for survival were one thing, but war? Olivia is definitely not looking particularly happy at the prospect.]

Have we tried every negotiating tactic? Surely there must be something we can offer the fae that they'd be interested in? Maybe something only humans can provide? Or maybe something artistic? I've heard some fairy tales that say Fae love beautiful things, and every piece of art is unique and special in its own right!

[She tries to be as optimistic as possible when it comes to peaceful resolutions.]

video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

Two wars? Your world must be a real mess.

[...Says one Fire Emblem to another...]

I suppose your idea would fall under the first suggestion, which is to use trade as a means to thaw relations. A popular counterargument so far though is that it's too slow, and won't produce enough meaningful results in time, given we're in something of an urgent situation here.

Video; UN: Wildflower

[madcuriosity]

Why wouldn't we try the most peaceful method? If violence is just going to make things worse, than shouldn't we try something new?

video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

That's one of the smartest things I've heard all day, little lady!

Trade and trials are our two remaining options, but they've both been tried before and don't seem to have gotten us very far. Something new entirely might be our best bet.

un: madeinheaven

[cameprepared]

Hey Claude, it's Claire.

Pretty much agree, kinda hard to argue with violence not being the answer. But I do have a question for you.

Do you think the trials would earn more respect from them than working on them over time with trade?

un: stargazer; text

[leicesters]

Hey Claire! I definitely think the trials would be more effective, given their whole purpose would be to prove our worth.

But I also have no idea what those trials entail, whether we'd succeed, or whether or not they'd be a trap, given we've pretty much made public a possibility of invasion. Any thoughts?

text; un: luckyseven

[tantailizing]

accept the trials

and trade

have something to fall back on

or find another way

[Hi, guess who's hitting enter before having full thoughts on the matter.]

text; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

So you're basically saying "try everything"? Did I follow that right?

video; un: q.103

[monostich]

I’m not sure if someone already mentioned it, but... When I first showed up here, we were, um, given trials to complete in order to get magic gems? One was to cross a bridge that... Judged the quality of our hearts or something like that, and the other...

[He trails off for a moment, frowning and thinking of an endless labyrinth.]

It was about facing our fears. It would probably be different trials, I imagine, but they would probably be in similar veins...?

video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

You're the first person to go into specifics, so that helps, thanks.

On what criteria were they judging peoples' hearts? And what were the magic gems for? Did they do anything special?

Video | Anonymous

[angel_of_death]

Waging a war when our magic is still fresh and weak, our weaponry is limited, lands and resources over the entire island are limited, and the proposed settlement happens to be teeming with masters of their crafts? What a brilliant idea!

[—A young, adolescent boy says, in the most sarcastic tone possible.]

Not to mention, those who die won't be very effective at cultivating magic for our larger predicament, will they?

Either of the other options are better. Frankly, I do not mind if we pursue both of the others at once. They would give us far better opportunities to learn about those we are trying to deal with.

video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

I suppose someone naive enough might think attacking Celliwig will be an isolated battle, and it won't necessarily lead to war. Personally, I think it's crazy, for all the reasons you've outlined.

And you're right, it's definitely possible to pursue both at once. There's no reason for trading to stop or slow down just because some of us decide to take on their trials.

text, un: filament

[omnicrafter]

Fae deal in equivalent exchange. If you can't offer them something that is worth something as valuable as their trust, they won't give it. That's been my experience, anyway. And usually, material things aren't what they're looking for.

So I think the trials may be the best option. We've got plenty of people up to the task, right?

text; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

I see. I suppose it's only fair that they get like for like, but it doesn't seem like Arthur offered them that.

Assuming the trials aren't something comepletely unreasonable, I'd say we're up to the task. We definitely have enough people here with varied skills and experiences.

video; un: 0123

[scension]

We need to avoid an invasion at all costs. We don't have many options for breaking with Camelot if they vote for one.

[Helping them start a war is so far out of the question that he doesn't think to mention it, of course. Big talk from an obvious if serious-looking teenager who may or may not know what a domestic duck is.]

video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

Agreed. But we may have the opposite problem, too. Even if we vote against the invasion, there may be some loose cannons among us who are sold enough on the idea that they'll go ahead and attempt it anyway.

I suppose this is what happens when a land lacks decisive leadership... I just hope the vote is conclusive enough that we can make good progress.

audio; un: birdofprey

[notquitetamed]

Thinking it over, I'm really not too keen on the idea of invasion. However, I do think it would be a good idea to ensure we have a force capable of defense as a backup in case other plans fail. I propose we consider building a defense militia as a backup to whatever option we decide on. That would be to our benefit no matter what happens. If invasion becomes necessary, then we'll also have a better trained force than we have now.

audio; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

That sounds wise. Even if Arthur's banner doesn't rally the support he wants, there'll be a lot more people willing to defend Camelot.

Do you have any experience in forming and training a militia?

voice | un: bakugou

[apshot]

War's not an option unless they bring it to us.

[ Look, he can understand wanting to take down a threat before it starts. But it doesn't really sound like that's the case here? ]

Do we even know why these assholes shut themselves away?

voice; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

A long time ago, Celliwig was once known as King Arthur's Splendored Court. After he passed on, it became home to master light and dark mages, who facilitated communication between Camelot and fairy kind, but they were eventually disillusioned with humans' self-righteous way of solving problems.

Until humans learned to properly accept fairy culture and not just their own ways of doing things, they sealed themselves away. And without Celliwig onside, Elphame is basically inaccessible to us.

video; un: crimonflame

[crimsongirl]

Based on what other people are saying, these trials are gonna be unknown. I say we do both just to cover both bases, but I'm curious as a month-old newbie: have there been any attempts for the Fae to understand humans like us? Or vice-versa? And if so, what's getting in the way of it?

video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

I'm also a month-old newbie, but I have a rough idea from brushing up on the topic. Fae first extended a helping hand to humans in letting them settle in Avalon a long time ago, where they could escape persecution and practice magic freely. There have been a couple of wars in the time since then, alongside smaller conflicts and disputes, and eventually Celliwig withdrew from human interaction, effectively cutting off access to Elphame from Camelot.

People like Merlin have been striving to foster better relations between humans and fae since then, however, through things like education on magic and culture. And Elphame sends traders to Camelot each month to ply their wares. There's definitely still good will on both sides, of that much I'm certain.

If I had to speculate on what's still getting in the way of it... I suppose it could be boiled down to simple cultural differences.

video; un: li_min

[kiss_it_better]

Avoiding war would be best.

[That being said...]

Trade links are all well and good, but do we have anything worthwhile to trade? While learning how to weave magic into fabrics was useful for us what is it that they gain? And what do they want proven with those trials? Without knowing what it is they want it can be hard to build a relationship.

[After all, it'd be all rather one-sided, wouldn't it?]

video; un: stargazer

[leicesters]

Collectively, we have both magic and the knowledge of what has to be hundreds of worlds. Isn't our limit just our creativity?

As for the trials, I know it seems unfair, but if we can prove ourselves and earn their respect, we won't be on the back foot in negotiations with them. Ideally we'd like them to see us as equals, but given Elphame's history, we'll just have to take it one step at a time.

Video

[gundhamster]

[As Gundham responds, he can be seen going about his business on his sanctuary/stables that he still had not settled on a name for.]

I admit, I have kept my head down in regards to the politics of the place. It was never my strong suit, however... given my own experience with war, I cannot in good conscience support any such antagonism.

Video

[leicesters]

Glad to hear it. I think most people are in agreement, so I feel a little less apprehensive about the vote, now.

video un: konpeito_oni 1/2

[konpeito_aji]

[Nobunaga's just been watching, so it's literally a whole week before he responds... with a laugh!]

Never thought I'd see the day a bunch of people could have an open discussion about war, and only one demon chimes in in favor of it!

[That'd be Yuber, of course. For whatever reason, Nobunaga is REALLY fond of him!]

2/2

[konpeito_aji]

[The humor vanishes in an instant though. And he gets all deadly grim and serious.]

Of course it's easy for outsiders to beg for peace. We only suffer the consequences of the conflict, not of the growing resentment, and being made to feel inferior like the people born here. Even assuming they're lashing out because the destruction of everything has them scared like wounded animals, so they're blaming an easy target, it's nice of them to pick the fae, not us. And curious. It indicates a lot more history.

I propose a completely fourth option, of neither trade, war, nor trial. Superiority through production at home.

If the people here resent the ease with which the fae use magic, then we can enable them to do things without magic that meet needs even better. If it's a matter of territory, or of simple fear, then show them that their needs can be met through ingenuity and hard work, and with creation and production rather than petty theft and destruction.

Of course, the beauty of this is that whether the people choose war, or continue with trades, then they'll need something better to offer either way.

So for all you peace-mongers; what are you offering those born here in exchange for the peace you seek?