voice, un: selcouth

[sulit]

[A young and animated voice rings through this audio post. For those who know Klaudia and the pace at which she rambles, it sounds like she's deep in the middle of one of her thought experiments.]

So, here's a question: Has anyone looked into why alchemy can't be used with living materials?

For instance, what's the difference between a living tree and a log? You would think nothing--it's the exact same materials. Same elements, same structure. One's connected to the ground and the other isn't, but all the right pieces are there for alchemizing, and yet... Nothing! You can't transmute with it. I tried a bunch of times, and a bunch of different ways.

There has to be something that's blocking alchemy from using those materials.

I've been thinking about this for a few days now, and I can't figure it out. I noticed that we have some new kinds of magic about. And see-- green magic and blood magic both interact with living things, so it's not a matter of living material being incompatible with magic. So what gives?

If you have any relevant information on the topic, let me know. Oh! And would anyone with green magic be willing to help me with a small experiment?

Thanks~

Comments

Video / un: Konpeito_oni

[konpeito_aji]

Plants still have will when they're alive. That's like asking the difference between meat and animals.

voice;

[sulit]

[Despite the video response, Klaudia remains on voice. She does snort a little at his response, though.]

I don't think will factors into it. There's no material component for "will" that I can find, and even if there was, plants don't have that. Except sentient ones, I guess. A treant would certainly have a kind of will, but I don't think the particular tree that I was practicing on is a treant.

Anyway! Alchemy doesn't particularly care about the other elements present, so there's still no reason I couldn't alchemize some element out of a living tree.

[konpeito_aji]

You seriously can't tell the difference between something dead and alive?

Breath. Internal functions. It's the same for healing.

voice; un: kyoshiwarrior

[warfan]

It doesn't seem that strange. Healers can't resurrect someone, and I wouldn't be surprised if green magic doesn't work on a felled tree. Maybe some types of magic rely on the presence or absence of living energy in the target to function.

i'm so sorry she's like this

[sulit]

Maybe they just can't resurrect someone yet. [The way she's holding up her finger to make a point is almost audible in her voice.]

It was certainly possible where I'm from, and I don't see why healers here couldn't learn it in the future. There are a number of scholars in my world that incorrectly file healing and resurrection magics under different schools. But their adamant refusal to admit that healing magic falls under necromancy and the manipulation of life energies is more likely due to the general populace having some kind of aversion to the mere mention of the word necromancy. Purely political in nature.

That said, if there is a life energy component to this equation, then fine. But I don't see why that should affect my alchemy, when the other components of a rock don't prevent me from pulling the iron from it.

[warfan]

Then wouldn't it be just as likely that it will be the death mages who figure out resurrection?

[That is absolutely a serious question, if a somewhat unnerved one. She's being drawn in in spite of herself.]

There are probably books on the history and origin of magical variants in the hermit's library. If you wanted to make the trip, I'd be happy to join you - there are a few things I have some questions about myself.

audio; un: birdofprey

[notquitetamed]

Can't give a for sure reason but can give an interesting observation. In my world there's a curse that is caused by a magic bullet, which uses my world's form of alchemy. Said curse changes the person and grants some inhuman traits. In me, I got wings and can fly with them back home. Here, I got wings but need magic to fly like everyone else does.

audio;

[sulit]

[She's not sure what that has to do with her question, but it is an interesting distraction.]

So you have the physical manifestation of wings, but they don't... what? Move? Flap? Does the air just pass through them? How does that work? ...Or not work, as the case may be.

[notquitetamed]

They have about as much effect as you flapping your arms without using magic. I find it odd because if this place truly blocked all alchemy on living creatures, it should block me from being able to make them manifest. Yet someone with animal magic could give themselves wings and fly without needing kinetic or elemental like I do.

text | un: b.belladonna

[committing]

Depends on the experiment.

But I've been wondering about that disjunction between blood magic, green magic, and alchemy, too. You'd think if magic required consent or cared about independent wills, blood mages wouldn't be able to turn people into puppets and we wouldn't be able to... turn people into living gardens.

Any reason you're trying besides pure intellectual curiosity?

text;

[sulit]

[She'll switch to text to accommodate.]

No reason~ Someone asked about it a few days ago, and it's been on my mind. That's all.

And it's exactly like you said-- It seems very silly to me that we have things like green magic and blood magic that can affect living things, especially without their consent, but alchemy can not.

There doesn't seem to be any specific metaphysical reason for it. So I was hoping to get a green mage to help me determine if there's a "life" element to it, or if the alchemy is still blocked by some other means. Process of elimination, really.

video; un: akashicknight

[morganknight]

You might be interested to know that the distinction exists in the magick forms I'm familiar with as well. In generic terms, Matter, Forces, and Life are all very different things. It is easily possible for a Mage to be able to alter the fundamental structure of matter without being able to so much as cure a sniffle in a living being.

There are a million different explanations why, though. It depends on what you believe, and I mean that literally.

voice;

[sulit]

[Despite the video response, Klaudia remains on voice.]

Well, that seems obvious to me on that account. I'm not saying that there's no difference between matter and life. But when it comes to alchemy, it's all equations of physical elements. The life aspect shouldn't come into play, and even if it does, there's nothing that stops me from extracting calcium from limestone without accounting for the other materials present. My question is why can't I extract that same calcium from a tree? Or from a person?

voice; un: obsidian36

[standvastig]

I confess that I am not familiar with alchemy to discuss such subjects at length. But it seems clear that there something must be blocking or controlling what magic is available. Is alchemy your study of choice?

[Well. A study of choice, maybe. But he doesn't want to presume.]

[sulit]

Alchemy was the magic I had when I arrived here, yes.

I've been working with it for two months now. I agree there's something blocking it. The problem is that I can't figure out what. By my calculations, there's nothing that should be; and yet! There is!

text | un: MYNAMEISCERES

[avowedvengeance]

the difference between a tree and a log is that a tree is alive and wet and a log is dead and dry. the longer you leave it dead, the drier it gets. better for firewood. obviously.

[ Well, someone listened to the second sentence and decided to reply without hearing the rest. There's always an idiot in the comments. ]

text;

[sulit]

Yes, that's

I understand the difference between alive and dead things, but I'm starting to think that no one else considers how that's not particularly relevant to the way that alchemy works. Or the way it's supposed to work.

[As far as her understanding is concerned, anyway.]

voice, un: redhood

[awooligan]

[Oh. It's her.]

Speaking of green magic, you ever think about going out to touch grass every once in a while?

[sulit]

[Oh, the rude boy. Hmm.]

You know, I've probably seen more of the outdoors than you have. You don't have any leg to stand on, saying that to me.

action

[arsonal]

Magic's broken.

[Yeah, Azar's just hanging out here, she's not gonna bother with the network thing. Sup. She's here, offering theories.]

[sulit]

[She's probably hanging upside down off a hammock she's fashioned in the corner, answering back to these responses, her hair fanning out below her.]

Magic doesn't just break. That's like saying gravity is broken.

VOICE | un: sparklythings

[patchricide]

There is a substantial difference between a living tree and a log, however. Only the former would be filled with quintessence. The physical matter may be the same, but the energy in it would be entirely different.

And I'm not sure that green magic and blood magic are relevant. Nor cognitive magic, which would already need to interact with quintessence to function... [A quick pause, as she muses if there's any others, before coming up with:] And animal magic as well. Each type of magic clearly has its own properties and limitations.

If I had to guess, it's likely that whatever magical force is driving alchemy might be too similar to quintessence itself. You may be attempting to work against the very force that's spurring the tree's growth and change.

[sulit]

[It's a shame that surprised blinking isn't audible, but there is a long pause. This might actually be what she's looking for...?]

Well I'm assuming that the transmutative nature of green magic would synergize well with alchemy, since they're the two most similar schools that I can determine. But...

What's quintessence? Is it something tangible or malleable?

text - un:IZZYGRRRL83

[notwearingthekeds]

Why would you want to do magic using living things!?

[sulit]

[Klaudia switches to text to accommodate this new message.]

Because understanding the functions and limitations of any magic system is how you learn and grow. Am I supposed to consider them off-limits just because everyone says that it can't be done?